Stearns did sort of slyly indicate a few weeks ago when discussing pitching in relation to Holmes building work load that the organization has kind of passed on the idea that innings and pitch counts can accomplish holding off injuries. That does not mean they would go hog wild, but I think they are going to follow the results.
I was just wondering how much the data supports the idea of hard innings limits to reduce the likelihood of injury. I've never seen any compilation of such data. For the hell of it, I looked up innings pitched in 2006 and there were about 58 (!) guys who logged 190 innings or more. 2024: only 9. Yet they're dropping like flies these days.
It is less about the innings they were throwing then and the amount now, though I get the comparison. But more so the build up process that has been deployed throughout systems over the years. There had been a more rigid process of limiting innings occurring for a long time in across the game. But there is just no data that suggests at all it helps. The challenge I think is two fold right now. For the last generation cycle of pitchers, lets say from 2005 on, the number that have been throwing constantly year round since age 10-11 has just exploded. Combined with the need for more speed, more break, more spin, more sizzle metrics. There are no down time for these kids and they are ticking time bombs. Throwing a baseball is the most unnatural of sports movements and the teachers have done little to examine what made guys like Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver, Greg Maddux and the like be able to persevere for long careers. Some of it is the game was different, some of it is they had maybe some freaky physical attributes, but also there were things pitchers used to do that generated more fluidity in their motion and less rigid robotic action. Problem with that as a theory is you have to some how crush the insanity of 10U all in travel ball, and good luck with that.
I didn't think about the fact that our minor leaguers were approaching a pitch limit. Mets in a bind anyway. Looks like on retrospect not getting a starter is gonna bite us no?? I know it's not easy but....we needed one...a workhorse
I haven't seen a drop of punditry regarding what the Pirates wanted for Keller, who I somehow thought we were going to get. Maybe the price was exhorbitant.
Word was Pittsburgh would have loved to clear his contract for the right deal, but everyone they talked to walked away pretty quickly. Ken Rosenthal was on it:
"An executive from a team interested in Keller, granted anonymity for his candor, said his team has not 'even bothered' continuing its pursuit of the pitcher, citing the Pirates’ reluctance to seriously engage."
So yeah, they wanted the Moon and the stars. I thought we might make a play for Zac Gallen since he's on a walk, but that never developed, either.
I don't think there was much more out there. Everyone wanted to hang on to their quality starters. They're becoming an increasingly rare commodity.
I screamed when the Mets signed Montas. How they didn’t learn he couldn’t pitch in NY from the Yankees I’ll never know. Montas hasn’t had a good year since ‘21 and he is an “in theory” pitcher. I theory his stuff should play but it doesn’t and hasn’t in 4+ seasons now. They are gonna eat most of that contract just to get rid of him you watch. If McLean pitches well I’d expect Holmes to find the bullpen when Megil comes back. Although I also feel he should be in the pen too. The Mets better come back next year with a team that is ready to pitch because it’s gonna be that last season of baseball for a long time.
Stearns did sort of slyly indicate a few weeks ago when discussing pitching in relation to Holmes building work load that the organization has kind of passed on the idea that innings and pitch counts can accomplish holding off injuries. That does not mean they would go hog wild, but I think they are going to follow the results.
I was just wondering how much the data supports the idea of hard innings limits to reduce the likelihood of injury. I've never seen any compilation of such data. For the hell of it, I looked up innings pitched in 2006 and there were about 58 (!) guys who logged 190 innings or more. 2024: only 9. Yet they're dropping like flies these days.
It is less about the innings they were throwing then and the amount now, though I get the comparison. But more so the build up process that has been deployed throughout systems over the years. There had been a more rigid process of limiting innings occurring for a long time in across the game. But there is just no data that suggests at all it helps. The challenge I think is two fold right now. For the last generation cycle of pitchers, lets say from 2005 on, the number that have been throwing constantly year round since age 10-11 has just exploded. Combined with the need for more speed, more break, more spin, more sizzle metrics. There are no down time for these kids and they are ticking time bombs. Throwing a baseball is the most unnatural of sports movements and the teachers have done little to examine what made guys like Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver, Greg Maddux and the like be able to persevere for long careers. Some of it is the game was different, some of it is they had maybe some freaky physical attributes, but also there were things pitchers used to do that generated more fluidity in their motion and less rigid robotic action. Problem with that as a theory is you have to some how crush the insanity of 10U all in travel ball, and good luck with that.
I didn't think about the fact that our minor leaguers were approaching a pitch limit. Mets in a bind anyway. Looks like on retrospect not getting a starter is gonna bite us no?? I know it's not easy but....we needed one...a workhorse
I haven't seen a drop of punditry regarding what the Pirates wanted for Keller, who I somehow thought we were going to get. Maybe the price was exhorbitant.
Word was Pittsburgh would have loved to clear his contract for the right deal, but everyone they talked to walked away pretty quickly. Ken Rosenthal was on it:
"An executive from a team interested in Keller, granted anonymity for his candor, said his team has not 'even bothered' continuing its pursuit of the pitcher, citing the Pirates’ reluctance to seriously engage."
So yeah, they wanted the Moon and the stars. I thought we might make a play for Zac Gallen since he's on a walk, but that never developed, either.
I don't think there was much more out there. Everyone wanted to hang on to their quality starters. They're becoming an increasingly rare commodity.
Thanks for the info, hadn't seen it.
My pleasure. It was buried in the July 30 live blog in The Athletic. I just happened to catch it.
Just say no to player options in contracts.
This is the guy I was hoping we'd bring up. I like his stuff, I like his delivery, I like his mentality.
Sure hope so. Tidwell looked badly outclassed, and it traumatized me, haha!
I screamed when the Mets signed Montas. How they didn’t learn he couldn’t pitch in NY from the Yankees I’ll never know. Montas hasn’t had a good year since ‘21 and he is an “in theory” pitcher. I theory his stuff should play but it doesn’t and hasn’t in 4+ seasons now. They are gonna eat most of that contract just to get rid of him you watch. If McLean pitches well I’d expect Holmes to find the bullpen when Megil comes back. Although I also feel he should be in the pen too. The Mets better come back next year with a team that is ready to pitch because it’s gonna be that last season of baseball for a long time.
About time. Can't be any worse than the starting pitching over the past 3 weeks. Best of luck, take it home!